Dual Elites

[R3vo!uTi0n]

Alright, so I just read the thread by Optimetrics about his ban and what not...

Im pretty new to the whole CSS thing, so Bears, Vash, and such may have answered what I am bout to ask in Opt.'s thread... But I use an alias to change my key binds to use my mouse wheel to fire, for when I am on pistols... Is this what ya'll were considering "unfair"??? The only guns that it seems crazy on is the elites, but it sprays so much when you use it, that it is pointless....

Like I said, I just wanted to ask before something like that got me banned... Dont want to play unfair by any means...

[FearlessG1]

i would say no, i used to know a lot of people that would bind their fire key to the scroll wheel because its funny how fast the elites can actually shoot. as far as i am concerned you can bind any key in your game to whatever function you would like.

[glenquagmire]

It seems this debate comes up every once in a while, and its always the source of minor controversy. I think the popular opinion around here in the past is that its not hacking, really. More like "glitching" essentially, as Bears is fond of saying so eloquently, it is altering the game's controls in a way the designers never intended to gain an advantage.

Is it cheating, not really, its more like counting cards in blackjack. It's exposing a weakness in the program to gain an advantage. And I know, someone will say its not an advantage, and I'll say bull. So let me save you the time. Depending on the admin who is on, I could see you possibly being kicked for it, or possibly temp banned if you were asked to stop and didn't.

One piece of advice I would give is to assume that the admins on our server are pretty fair as a whole, and I've never heard of anyone being banned out of the blue for something like that. Often people come here to "defend" themselves, and leave out a big chunk of the story. Keep in mind, if you are treated unfairly, you can come here and state your case, and unlike a lot of clans, we take admin abuse seriously, we don't just tell you to go away. (Unless you really deserve it).

Hope this helps, GLHF.

[DA BEARS[RS]]

;23198'] it is altering the game's controls in a way the designers never intended to gain an advantage.
It's exposing a weakness in the program to gain an advantage.

Exactly my feelings on the subject. But in the case of that "other guy" his shooting was just to obvious to overlook.

[R3vo!uTi0n]

Yea... Like I said, I noticed a few ppl on various servers shoot the elites at an un-godly rate... Whether they had it nound to the scroll or not I dont know... So I did some research and tried it... I found that it really did no good... It sprays so much that I would have to aim for the nuts to get a good hit.. Oh well just wondering... Thanks all!

[JohnnyLaw[RS]]

I do it, with a macro. On my Logitech G15 keyboard. It does not have an unfair advantage. If anything, its a handicap. The "control" of the guns in the game is so outrageous its not even funny. Those of you that are forming an opinion without performing the action yourself are basing that opinion on ignornace (no offense intended). Unless you have written a macro and performed it, I suggest you contemplate. that is all.

[Ninjakitty]

i agree with fear, i'd say mousewheel is fair because everyone can do it, unless they have some crappy mac with a mouse that's just a button, but those ppl don't deserve it anyway, lol. macro i dunno, afaik "normal" comp keyboards don't do that. i dunno how good it would be anyway, but it could be pretty useful at close range where accuracy isn't important, like a third shotty. can you set the macros to go at different speeds so it would go faster than anybody could click but not so fast that it's totally uncontrollable?

[Pot]

;23254']I do it, with a macro. On my Logitech G15 keyboard. It does not have an unfair advantage. If anything, its a handicap. The "control" of the guns in the game is so outrageous its not even funny. Those of you that are forming an opinion without performing the action yourself are basing that opinion on ignornace (no offense intended). Unless you have written a macro and performed it, I suggest you contemplate. that is all.


i 2nd the law of johnny. we cant aim worth a shit with the macro unless you are point blank range. trust me i know i use a macro for dulies EVERY time

[toastmonster[RS]]

does the scroll wheel make knifing any faster?

[R3vo!uTi0n]

;23254']I do it, with a macro. On my Logitech G15 keyboard. It does not have an unfair advantage. If anything, its a handicap. The "control" of the guns in the game is so outrageous its not even funny. Those of you that are forming an opinion without performing the action yourself are basing that opinion on ignornace (no offense intended). Unless you have written a macro and performed it, I suggest you contemplate. that is all.

Thats really the way I feel.... I some what agree with what Bears said, but its available to anybody that wants to use it... Like I said, I just did some research and figured out how to make a alias where I could use the norm. configuration, then switch it and have left click as next inventory, right click as previous inventory, and scroll for attack... I dont see it to be a glitch.... Valve would not have designed the game to where you could do it, if they did not feel it was fair... Anybody serious about the game should be able to take the time to figure out the "hidden benefits" that are within...


;23267']does the scroll wheel make knifing any faster?

I dont see it making knifing any faster, seeing how when you right click with the knife, you can already click faster than the speed you actually jab the knife....

[glenquagmire]

whatever, next case.

[DA BEARS[RS]]

but its available to anybody that wants to use it... I dont see it to be a glitch.... Valve would not have designed the game to where you could do it, if they did not feel it was fair... Anybody serious about the game should be able to take the time to figure out the "hidden benefits" that are within...

Hacks are also available to anybody that wants to use them, but you don't need a certain kind of keyboard to run hacks.

[DA BEARS[RS]]

I dont see it making knifing any faster, seeing how when you right click with the knife, you can already click faster than the speed you actually jab the knife....

Unless your name is Rev or Piink. :D

[CREEPING DEATH]

LOOK AT ME, I'M BEARS, THE DOUBLE POSTING ATTENTION WHORE!!!!!!!!!





HAVE A NICE DAY :) :) :) :)

[R3vo!uTi0n]

;23282']Hacks are also available to anybody that wants to use them, but you don't need a certain kind of keyboard to run hacks.

Hack are not built into the game tho are they?? Anyway, Im not trying to argue about it, just state my opinion on it....

[JohnnyLaw[RS]]

If you go to the Steam website ( http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=644435 for an example)and look at the forums (which are monitored and maintained by Steam) you will find many threads concerning scripts. The act of creating and using scripts is something which is acknowleged and condoned by steam. It is also increasingly common. If you are going To restrict the manner in which one chooses to fire his weapon, than what will be next? perhaps creating a script to buy a certain selection of supplies at the begining of a match as well? That's an unfair advantage according to the definition of some who have posted in this thread. It is allowing an individual to spend less time during the "buy" process at the begining of the round.

My definition of "unfair advantage" is basically when someone uses something that is not immeadiatly/readly available for everyone else to gain an unfair advantage. "hacks" are NOT immeadiatly available to everyone. In addition, they are circumventing or altering the game code. Scripts are a part of the game. If scripts were not part of the game you would have to hack to make and use them.

[R3vo!uTi0n]

;23305']If you go to the Steam website ( http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=644435 for an example)and look at the forums (which are monitored and maintained by Steam) you will find many threads concerning scripts. The act of creating and using scripts is something which is acknowleged and condoned by steam. It is also increasingly common. If you are going To restrict the manner in which one chooses to fire his weapon, than what will be next? perhaps creating a script to buy a certain selection of supplies at the begining of a match as well? That's an unfair advantage according to the definition of some who have posted in this thread. It is allowing an individual to spend less time during the "buy" process at the begining of the round.

My definition of "unfair advantage" is basically when someone uses something that is not immeadiatly/readly available for everyone else to gain an unfair advantage. "hacks" are NOT immeadiatly available to everyone. In addition, they are circumventing or altering the game code. Scripts are a part of the game. If scripts were not part of the game you would have to hack to make and use them.

-^-^-^-^-^ What he said.... I feel belittled after reading that post, so I guess I have nothing to add... I need to buy a dictionary :confused:

[CoolHair[RS]]

why you would want to use the mouse wheel is beyond me, when duelies are VERY accurite if used right. why fire 10 shots and HOPE they hit when you need only 2 or 3?

but useing the mouse wheel is not considered unfair game. Eiltes can be fired fast as you want, but for a price, and useing the wheel you pay for it the most

[DA BEARS[RS]]

;23305'] The act of creating and using scripts is something which is acknowleged and condoned by steam. It is also increasingly common.

Bunnyhop is a script, is that considered fair?

Isn't making your ping look lower so you don't get kicked some sort of "legal" mod? Because I've seen people get kicked/banned for ping masking.

I really don't care what people use, I look at it like they are cheat codes for video games.

Script away.................

And who the hell is this "CoolHair" guy? :D

[R3vo!uTi0n]

;23320']why you would want to use the mouse wheel is beyond me, when duelies are VERY accurite if used right. why fire 10 shots and HOPE they hit when you need only 2 or 3?

but useing the mouse wheel is not considered unfair game. Eiltes can be fired fast as you want, but for a price, and useing the wheel you pay for it the most

I dont use them for elites, b/c like I said, it does no good except at point blank range.... But to other pistols it works fairly well....


;23321']Bunnyhop is a script, is that considered fair?

Isn't making your ping look lower so you don't get kicked some sort of "legal" mod? Because I've seen people get kicked/banned for ping masking.

I really don't care what people use, I look at it like they are cheat codes for video games.



Bunny hopping is really F#$^%$^ annoying, but I wouldn't consider it unfair.... It is possible to do it with out a script, just EXTREMELY difficult (For me anyways, thats why I just gave up)... Ping masking I would say is unfair... I didn't know you could do such a thing with a script... The only servers I really play on is RS and KHuDA, and I have under 50 ping at all times... So thats not something I would worry about anyway..

All I am saying is tha the game was designed so that ppl can change key binds to what best suits them... It may be a lazy way do go about it, or means you have less skills that someone that does it a different way... there are scripts to switch to he grenade, throw grenade, and switch back to gun all in one click... I am sure that there are ppl that can do that just as fast using default settings, and probably prefer to do it that way... In CAL or TWL I can see it being unfair... The leagues are based on skill and teamwork... I would say the pub servers are more like a pro/am where there is a handicap....

I dont care one way or another, just figured that I would see what everyone thought on the subject...

But just to state a case, changing your key binds in options is scripting as well, it re-scripts your config file....Only the game does it automatically... Just wondering why it is any different if someone does it manually in console??

[CREEPING DEATH]

its all gungame which means anything goes and you can pretty well do what you like as far as scripting and whatnot. I have played in servers and with people that have so many scripts running it makes your head spin. I commend RS for having the self dicipline for not adding shittons of scripts. You will never keep people from being asshats in servers, but if something looks fishy in YOUR server, an admin has the right to "kick" this particular person for making his/her gaming experience unfun in the server they help admin. If someone has a problem with being "kicked" and they like the server enough, they will come here to get a definite decision on what goes and what doesn't. There seems to be varying opinions on what is acceptable gameplay and what is not. I LOVE THE COUNTER STRIKE FIGHTS ;) I basically don't have a point other than this is one of those arguments/discussions you can bring up 100 different times to 100 different people and get 100 different answers........(Creepy quietly exits conversation, knowing he has helped resolve nothing)..........................

[R3vo!uTi0n]

(Creepy quietly exits conversation, knowing he has helped resolve nothing)..........................

Exactly right!! But your comment is much appreciated... :nw

[CREEPING DEATH]

ya, i tend to do that from time to time

[BMAsRevenge[RS]]

Valve allows for easy editing of just about any form of the game. Some may call it enhancing the game, some do it just for fun, some call it cheating. It all depends on what end you are on. Sure you can easily change the fire rate on the dualies by scripting either to the mouse wheel, the actual mouse button or any key with a bind.
You can also scipt single or 2 shot fire which greatly enhances the accuracy of heavy recoil guns.
You can easily change skins for players in game valve allows this too. Wouldn't it be easier if the whole other team was always neon orange?
You could just download an actual hack and use it.

The problem is at what point is it considered unfair or an unfair advantage. Cal and TWL realized that some of the many easy enhancements could be used as an advantage a long time ago. That is why they set in place rules and require screenshots and demos during game.

Just because you can do something doesn't make it right. We have many admins on OUR server. Some may not care others may reject any of the enhancements being used. Thats an opinion they are entitled to and have the right to enforce there opinion.

If someone is using a script, skin or hack and the admin that is on the server ask that person to stop. Then takes action because they did not I will support that admin. So respect the admin on at the time and if that leaves you always wonder if you can or can't maybe your better off not.


.

[DA BEARS[RS]]

Dammit Rev, why do you always come into the conversation with the best answer?

[glenquagmire]

I like Pie.

[CREEPING DEATH]

dammit, rev said everything i was saying, but in a wwwwaaaayyyyyy better fashion, he must have been good in grammar class when he was a youngin............

[R3vo!uTi0n]

Thats cool with me... I just wanted to bring the question up, since I have done this... (scroll wheel) But it would not be a problem if I was asked to stop by an admin... Thought it would be best to get everyones opinion on it before hand... Thanks to everyone too for their insight...

[JohnnyLaw[RS]]

I enjoy the debate of it all. Especially when everyone acts mature about it and doesn't start kicking others in the balls for having a differance of opinion. Thats what these forums are supposed to be all about. Everything doesn't have to be a shouting match or spamfest. This type of discussion allows everyone to understand each other. That makes for much better game play and more fun, for everyone.

[Devoti]

Except for Devoti (KICKS CREEPING IN THE NIZUTS!!!!!!) I enjoyed reading this section in the forums. Thanks guys.

[CoolHair[RS]]

;23337']I like Pie.




scoolhair im with that guy!

[DA BEARS[RS]]

;23350']I enjoy the debate of it all. Especially when everyone acts mature about it and doesn't start kicking others in the balls for having a differance of opinion. Thats what these forums are supposed to be all about. Everything doesn't have to be a shouting match or spamfest. This type of discussion allows everyone to understand each other. That makes for much better game play and more fun, for everyone.

Allright, what happened to the Johnny we all know? This is like the 5th or 6th post I've seen by him that was....."nice"?

Dammit man, verbally beat somebody down, so we know you're ok. :D

[Randy Lahey[RS]]

dammit, rev said everything i was saying, but in a wwwwaaaayyyyyy better fashion, he must have been good in grammar class when he was a youngin............
DAMMIT MAN, WHAT HAPPENED TO THE CAPS LOCK?

[CREEPING DEATH]

LOL

[SSLJ]

I tried the mouse wheel bind for +attack and holy crap can you shoot the elites quickly that way.

Kinda makes me wish my aim wasn't so crappy.

[R3vo!uTi0n]

;23389']I tried the mouse wheel bind for +attack and holy crap can you shoot the elites quickly that way.

Kinda makes me wish my aim wasn't so crappy.


Yea, a hell of a lot faster than anyone would need.... It does work well for the other pistols tho.